Wealth Without Governance Becomes A Lawsuit

If wealth is a race, most people sprint the first lap and trip on the handoff. We sit down with fractional family office expert Avneet Kaur to map the part that actually keeps fortunes intact: taxes, governance, and succession that work in real life, not just on a glossy pitch deck. Avneet explains what a family office truly is today, why licensing and transparency matter in an unregulated space, and how even families in the $5M to $100M range can use a services-first model to gain clarity and control.

We get practical fast. Avneet starts where most advisors don’t, taxes, because no investment reliably returns 40 percent, but that’s what poor structure can cost you. From there, we dig into entity design, debt and equity stacks, reporting, and the quiet backbone functions that big institutions often ignore: bookkeeping, compliance, and cash flow operations. She shares patterns she sees during generational transfer, from founder bottlenecks to advisor pileups, and lays out how a quarterly family meeting, clear mandates, and an independent intermediary can prevent costly litigation and keep decisions moving.

Education is the compounding force. Avneet's playbook for heirs is simple and effective: pay teenagers to sit in board meetings, stage access to capital with milestones, and teach the mechanics of earning, protecting, and growing money. We talk about new wealth, from tech exits to influencers and how to shift from patchwork fixes to a clean, coordinated strategy. We close with philanthropy as legacy architecture: a way to align values, create meaningful roles for the next generation, and optimize taxes without performative spending.

If you feel “fine on paper” but know something important is missing, this conversation is your roadmap to build a resilient system around your wealth. Subscribe, share with a fellow builder, and leave a review with the top question you want us to tackle next.

Connect with Avneet Kaur at ak@fractional-familyoffice.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Entrepreneurial Empire Podcast. This is the place where you can find business and career strategies, techniques, and real life success journeys of individuals who have built their businesses to the million-dollar revenue mark and beyond. I'm Jacqueline Hernandez, life coach and business development consultant. I have worked with startups, Fortune 100 companies, network marketing, direct sell organizations, churches, nonprofits, and government agencies, all to become the authority experts in their industry, lead with people, and scale their revenue. Let's get started. Hello, entrepreneurs, and welcome back. Today we have an amazing guest, one of one person that I have the utmost respect for. She's all the way out of Los Angeles, California. She is a fractional family office, and she is just servicing the most incredible human beings on planet Earth. She's a global fractional family office, and she has also been known to throw the most amazing family office events. And if you're lucky, you just might get a glimpse of a prince from another country sitting in her yacht of one of her family office events. So please welcome Avni Sakar.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Thank you so much. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. And this is such a great idea. Uh Jacqueline, you're just a rock star. I can't even, I can't even imagine how you manage this all.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. Lots of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, I assume. I'm ready for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yes, I love it. So tell me, I know you're a mom. You're a mom of two daughters, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yes.

What A Family Office Really Is

SPEAKER_02 1:50

And you've been a successful, I always say entrepreneur, business owner, but the one thing that caught my attention about you a few years ago when we really dived into a conversation. Um, you are just super knowledgeable. Like knowledge is comes off of you. Your wisdom is just there. And you know, everything that you talked about, I learned so much from you every time I have a conversation. So today, if you are listening to this episode, turn the volume on, okay, put your seatbelt on. I don't want you to fall out of your seat, okay? I don't want to be liable for that. But today, the information that you're going to hear, you definitely want to want to grab a pen and a paper and take some notes because we have some real uh knowledge here and the real direction, I would have to say. So let's dive right in. My first question for you is Are you ready? Yes, let's do it. Okay. So for me, what you know, being in the family office space, uh, a lot of people don't really understand what that is, even if they're at like a 30 million, a hundred million mark. Um, it's interesting. I'm I had a conversation with somebody that was at like the 30 million mark, and they I mentioned family office and they had no idea what that was. So it it that to me blew me away. So most people that do hear family office and they think it's only for billionaires if they do know what it is. But in reality, who is the ideal candidate for a fractional family office? And most importantly, who is not?

Single Vs Multi And The Rise Of Services

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, I would say if you are uh not at a point of investments where you're making investments, you are not ready for quite the family office. But the I think let's dive into the the what is a family office, right? It's it's such a convoluted, right? Unregulated um industry where uh everyone can call themselves family office. That's the fact today. Okay. So if you wake up today and say there's no baseline now, anyone can call themselves a family office. So now the onus lies on you to check who is what and what are they doing, and how do you really understand this market where it's um you know unregulated. I would I would compare it to the crypto world where everybody has a coin now, and it's like, you know, the the example of Dogecoin, it was it was a meme coin and it shut up. I would say family office traditionally, yes, the Rockefellers originally actually built the family office for themselves. The idea, I think, comes from, and this is just the dots that I connected, Jaclyn. This one was for you. Um, I think it comes from running a kingdom. The concept was uh a king and a queen were basically responsible to enhance their kingdom. So succession was key to them, real estate holdings were key to them, taxes were key to them, um, any kind of security was key to them. So when you think about what the Rockefellers did, they kind of did the similar model for themselves. So I would call it call them modern day kings and queens. So in the modern day, we call what they're billionaires, right? So these billionaires are kings and queens of their own um, you know, in their own kingdoms and they have to run industry, they have to make sure the economy is functioning well within their industry, and you can't do that unless you have clarity in where the money is going. So that includes taxes, investments, that includes real estate, that includes lending, your debt, your equity stack, your personal financial statements. In the modern day, the conversations are calls different things, but the concept is still the same. So a family office is basically somebody who has enough money to not have to work anymore. Okay, they can live off the interest. I'm seeing that mark being around five to 10 million at the minimum side, okay. Five to 10 million people can stack away in their assets and you know, kind of live off the interest and have a decent life. Those guys are also looking for investments. I would say at the very baseline, this is called a single family office. I would call them tiny seeds. These guys will, if they're very aggressive, they will start investing this money well and actually can take it to the next level, right? So nobody starts at 100 million plus unless you're inheriting that, which is again the succession line. Um, those guys usually are already institutionalized, right? Now, 100 million and up are can also be single family offices, but they like to function as a multifamily office. That means they don't like to invest all of their cash alone. They want their friends who are usually family offices too. So I see those family offices collaborate on investments. So it could be very specific. It could be together in crypto, together in real estate, together in certain uh alternate asset, right? You could think this can be globally done. So that's like the multifamily, single family office difference. Now, the service side has also showed up, which is, I would say, uh the most interesting part, the services side of the family offices, which is rather new. I would say this is kind of only taken up in the last 10 years. This is registered investment advisors like myself being able to provide more than one service and are able to see transparently where the money is going. And the intention is to provide high strategic value to the client that keeps their taxes in control, keeps their investments in control, has a full transparent view on what's going on, and be able to like make quick decisions because they're globally invested or intending to invest and they have that fuel. So that fuel, most of these guys are under 100 million or just around 100 million, and not quite institutionalized yet. Or if they're institutionalized, that means that, okay, they might have a chunk in the market, but they still want to invest in alternate assets and want control on how that money's being spent. So it's not 100% dependent on the financial advisor, um, but also on uh themselves. Like, okay, I want to invest in these 15 vertical businesses. So these guys need operations help, they need taxation help and full transparency in how their businesses are running. So that's the services side. So you really want to be sure that you're dealing with licensed people when you're dealing with the services side, because again, anyone can wake up and call themselves a family office, right? So, how do you verify? Um, so on the services side, you can verify with licensing, on the investment side, you can verify with investments, right? And Z rather becomes more transparent. So anyone that feels like, oh my God, family office is not for me, that's not the goal. The goal is, are you making investments? Are you thinking succession? And it doesn't mean that you have kids, you could have charitable, philanthropic, you know, strategic thoughts in your head that, you know, don't relate to family, and that's okay too. So but the succession point is that after me, what's happening to my legacy, right? What's happening to my money? Those types of, I would say, mindset people attract family off uh office uh structure the most. Because in the end of the day, what in the crux of a family office is a proper structure that includes a legal entity, that includes uh your board of directors, that could include, you know, your own kids and succession in line. So the Rockefellers, I would say, are the really good example of a true, true family office and how they can run today.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Wow. So I heard you talk about investment and succession planning, and those seem to be the anchors of a family office. Um, and really, and it I love that example that you gave about the kingdom, the king and queen, and really planning out what does that succession line look like and um having all your affairs in order. Um, that's so important. And why do you think, I mean, just outside of the family office realm, why do you think the average person doesn't think that way?

Mindset, Rat Race, And Financial Education

SPEAKER_00 9:28

You know, I think we get caught up in the rat race. Um, and it's so easy to do that, uh, especially in the US, because we see cultures, uh, I'm Indian born and raised, so we see cultures across the globes, right? And we've been comparing the US lifestyle. And the US lifestyle is actually rather stressful. Um, and it kind of keeps you in a loop. So, unless you can kind of unplug or be fortunate enough to be handed the opportunity to not have to worry about your next paycheck, um, that is a blessing. And in that mindset, you can start thinking that, oh, okay, yeah, what should I really do? The thought of purpose doesn't really even show up in conversations today. Um, but I would say that that is directly linked with uh high rates of depression. Um, so I feel like the people that are attracted to family office concepts usually have um uh succession in mind. So they already have like a philanthropic thought in mind, or they have kids in mind of their own, or you know, how to help the future generations. Those types of people are most attracted towards family offices. But unfortunately, a lot of the US population just has not had the luxury to stop and think. Um, and I also feel like our education system is kind of missing some basics about financial education, um, to have a forethought of you know, a global strategic movement. Like there's a lot of holes in our high school up to our high school system, and most of the population is only educated till high school. So I feel that if we had focused more on or still currently focus on more financial education, then people could actually think about oh, so my intention is not just to go get a job, but my intention is to go get a job, save enough money, and start investing for myself so that one day I can leave the job. Um, and that could have been uh coming from the the idea of a pension where uh pensions used to take care of people in their retirement, but uh the 401k came in, you know, nobody even thinks about retirement and they think that that replaced the pension and that will take care of me. But it's it's a mindset that that has to be taught young. And uh family offices actually teach their kids young. This is not something you're just born with unless you're actually literally just born with, you know, and so to force that first generation to think this way um is rather difficult, right? So you either come with that mindset of legacy of future generations want to help, then you're probably blessed with the thought of like, oh yeah, what do I do next? Or or you're just born into it. But otherwise, how would you ever get exposed to it? It's actually that's why I love talking about it and take the time to, you know, do this and go talk to people and say, Have you thought about the next steps? And they could be 20, 30 million dollars in and think, like, oh crap, I actually haven't thought about the next steps because I'm just rat racing it, right? And they're fortunate, they have a minute, but it's like you're really good at making money, but then you're not really good at planning ahead. So it's more of also trusting uh the right industry professionals. Um, and I think this bug is also spreading in the uh industry professionals who offer more than just one service. So I feel like the both the seeds have already uh you know germinated, and on each end, we can actually see the industry growing. So more and more high net worth individuals are thinking, hey, how do I think the next step, the succession, the family office, which is usually 100 million and under. Um, and these guys on the financial services side, where I work in this space too, and I see a whole bunch of services uh pop up, whatever into even institutions are now saying, hey, I'm gonna offer retail services as family office services to high net worth instead of just focusing on the billionaires. So I feel like the industry is spreading.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

You brought up a really good point there. And you know, and I hope our listeners are catching on to this because you talked about coming to the mind, like having the mindset from a very young age, and it's something that's taught, and that's that generational wealth that we're talking about, right? But then when you think about like I think of Silicon Valley, that's where I'm from. So you think of Silicon Valley, new billionaires, new multimillionaires. And when you think about that, how do you like close the gap on that mindset that wasn't taught to them? I mean, you have some billionaires that are how I, you know, a billionaire that was at a uh conference that you and I both were at, and he talked about coming from the Philippines and not even having shoes, and now he has three unicorn companies. So, you know, how do you teach that mindset? How do you close that gap?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, it's education, honestly. And uh I think it's always the mindset of I don't know everything. So people who are in that mindset already love to learn and love to grow and love to keep their opportunities open. And then there are people that I meet often that are generation one just uh hit the first billion and they're like, no, I know what I do best, so I don't need your help. So, you know, so the people that are already open to this mindset are the people that are listening to the podcast, right? They're the ones who are saying, Hey, what's out, what's out there? I want to know more. Um, and and those are the guys that, you know, kind of seek and plug into the education part of it. And honestly, it's not rocket science. I'm not sending somebody to space. It's very simple IRS codes, we follow the process, it's all written out for us, you know, and all our job is to connect the dots, right? To make sure that that fingerprint that you want to leave behind uh through taxes, investments in succession can be done correctly. So it's basically just aligning your team. And if you it only happens really when you feel the pain, you know, you're paying ridiculous, yeah, your your tax bills are out of control, you know, your investments are not doing well. Uh, those are the people that are like, okay, well, this hurts a lot. I need a doctor, and then they show up. So, you know, it's very few people are preventative. Uh, most people are in damage control.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Oh my gosh. Well, one ounce of prevention is better than a ton of correction, I feel like.

Teaching New Wealth: Billionaires Under 40

SPEAKER_00 15:15

My mom used to stay, uh, stitch in time saves nine. Uh very traditional Indian family, you know. So she was used to be very aware is do it now when it's less problematic, right? It'll probably cost less to do it than when it when it's all bad. So align your teams is the key.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Now, as an ultra uh wealthy family, an ultra-affluent family, what do you feel like they understand about money management that a newly affluent family almost always misses?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

You know, uh, I would say over stacking on talent because either they freak out, they don't know what to do, so they hire just everybody that's bringing anything to them. So when they see a nice big brand name, you know, can I say UBS? So people like, you know, big institutions are whining and dining them and stacking on services, and then they're leveling up with even more advisors on top. And so I just have found that to be very inefficient. I feel actually that the generation twos and threes have already caught up to that and already know how to streamline and only look for strategic advisors to replace each other eventually, and they last generations. So I see advisors stick around for 20, 30 years in those types of structures. But G1 usually doesn't trust anyone, um, has a lot of trouble finding advisors. Um, in fact, they keep shopping them, and usually there's a lot of confusion, um, unless they just plug and play with like a UBS and they're like, okay, well, you know, just do it for me. And then nothing else on top. So their CPA is still not the qualified, the best qualified. They're usually their accounting team is still not doing that great because big institutions are not looking at your taxes like that, right? They're not looking at your nitty-gritty operations cash flow. So they're not looking at that, they're just looking at what's in the bank, right? What do you bring to me? Um so we're not looking at that. So when I'm when I talk about fractional family office building your own team, it's not that you don't need the UBS, but you also need a good team to back you up on compliance and accounting and payroll and bookkeeping and make sure your entity structures are correct. So UBS doesn't care about that.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I feel like when you talk about like UBS, it's more like cruise control, right? It's kind of like do we cross our T's and dot our I's? Okay, we did what we needed to do, but what you see they don't dive in and really look at, you know, what's in between and what can what can we get out of this, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, and that's not their job. They're not proposing that that's their job either. They are asset managers, that's who they are, right? So a credit suisse falls in that line, Goldman Sachs falls on that line. I mean, I don't want to just pick on UBS, but all the big boys on Wall Street fall on that line. Uh, in fact, at Lehman Brothers, I was a part of corporate advisory division, and that was my job is to do research, you know, and find influential people who are in uh India and how to connect with them and uh how to build that bridge. So uh the idea of advisory is that we are constantly building bridges, right? So the first bridge, when you when you show up to this island and you're like, oh, I have a billion dollars now what? You're you're gonna have to start building bridges with people and people you trust that you know they're gonna constantly help you grow. So yeah, people like UBS and institutions like that are very important in your portfolio, but what else is important has kind of been the in the dark, I would say, and that's coming to the light now. And that most of that is tax compliance, bookkeeping, operations, entity structuring, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

So when you're brought in, tell me what I guess are gonna be the first three silent risks that you are looking for in the families that you usually that or in families that you come on with that don't even realize that they're eroding their wealth there in those areas.

Silent Risks: Taxes, Structure, Succession

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I I always start with taxes. Uh, I feel uh very, very passionate and strongly about taxes because I mean, not only am I in California, my guys get hurt the most, I feel. Uh, but but there are no investments that I'm making you 40% in. So 40, 50% is your tax rate. Um, I'm trying to bring that tax rate down, right? So yeah, your advisor at UBS can still make you like that 8, 9, 10%, whatever. I mean, risky's would look like 10, 12%. But low risk SP type, you know, you're looking at what 8% average over 20 years. Um, but your taxes are twice, three times that minimum. And I mean, and if you're in that high income category where you're not structured correctly, you're losing almost 50% of what you're earning every single year. That lays like the biggest hole. Um, and in fact, I've noticed this problem not just in the first generation, but this problem exists in multiple generations. So then I'm thinking, okay, well, now what else can I do? So I start with taxes, um, and that gets me into show me your investments. Then in those investments, I'm trying to figure out can we do a good match where are we not structured correctly? What's going on? Like how to, you know, again, connect the dots. Um, and then we look at how to use succession. So I'm looking at your how you're passing your assets, how you are currently invested, um, and what you're currently paying. And those three really help me really identify and what's going on. I call it like the CAT scan plus the MRI.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Oh, I love that. Okay, let's go see Dr. Avni.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, my mom was uh she she always wanted me to be a doctor, you know, how Indian Oh I know. Yeah, you know, doctors are engineers, and I never had a shot with engineering.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Oh my gosh, my honey is an engineer, so I definitely get that. If you'll talk to me about stuff over dinner, I'm like, yeah. Smile and on and pretty. Well, okay, so tell me this. How often do you actually see families that have like these amazing strong balance sheets, but don't really have like uh or have a weak governance and uh decision-making frameworks?

Governance Breakdowns And Generational Handoffs

SPEAKER_00 21:15

You know, I usually notice uh when there's a succession happening that the weak spots show up. Um, it's usually there's there's some life event that has triggered. And I would say I see one a month right now, uh, which is very normal for me. The assets are normally around 50 to 100. Um, and these are like active operators, active business owners, and their intention is to get into that 200 million, 300 million mark. They're planning exits. And so when the life changes start to happen, uh usually uh it's actually in the US what I've noticed is the generation, the boomer generation is exiting. Um, and uh Gen Z or sorry, Gen X is taking over, and that process has really called caused a lot of problems. So there Advisors are not transferring over, and then the governance weakens. So whoever usually sets up the first level is really strong at it and doing a great job, but it's usually when they lose control and have not actually delegated the next steps. So that's when the family gets lost. The entrepreneur is usually, you know, 75 plus, and the kids are in their 50s. I've noticed this is a very common problem, I would say. Um, I've noticed 10 families a year going through this. Um, and that's and and maybe one of them is correctly structured. And so everyone else is either not correctly structured or the assets are not correctly attached, and or the the generation one just has not even communicated to generation two what they're supposed to do. So there's there's this family I deal with where everybody just does it because dad told us to do it, but nobody really has a job title or an expected job function. And if the family member is not there, the other one just covers for it, but there's no protocol or of like are you comfortable? It's weird, right? And it's very common, and it's very common. No, it is very common, too common. Exactly. And so if we're looking at families even at$10 million right now, at$5 million right now, I don't turn them away because I still see the problem, but they're much easier to fix. So I always say, you know, if you pay attention at that level, within the year, you're on your own. You start, you know, you know what to do next, and it's gonna be so easy for your next 10, 20 million to gather before you see problems again. Um, but usually if you start fixing it young, it just it's such a problem solver. I have another family that's over 300 million, and it is it's like a dinosaur. I can't change anything. It's very difficult. Advisors are very stuck. Um, everything has like 20 layers of checklists that we have to go through. We need every red, every family member to sign off. There's like 14 of them. It's just such a slow process, right? And what are they hemorrhaging mean, meanwhile? Penalties, taxes, um, it could be um inefficient investment, um, just positioning is not correct. They're not even tax loss, harvesting, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Now, what have you ever seen where uh the family's wealth like really just outpaces that emotional maturity for like the next generation or communication systems or even leadership structure? Do you have you ever seen like that outpacing of the wealth?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah. Um, actually, I would say when uh most of these founders, and this is generation one, all these uh guys who have hit it uh big under 40. Um, uh, and uh there's a family that I'm dealing with that's um 500 million and up, and they can't they don't know what to do. So they literally had to figure out everything from scratch themselves. And I met the owner and I realized what happened with them, but that was exactly the case. Like they were so they were not expecting the exit, they were not expecting that kind of income coming in. Um, they had they were expecting in their hand a hundred million and about half a billion showed up. So they were not ready for that. And and so what ended up happening, um I I call it like plugging the holes. They plugged a lot of holes, and at that time it worked because it was an emergency to kind of receive all the cash. Um, but the the biggest damages I cannot undo for them, unfortunately, which were in taxes. So imagine that kind of a big fat um exit and then personally realizing all of it in California. So it's very painful, right? Yeah, techies, these techies go through this all the time. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I mean, it sounds like a lot of this has comes down to taxes, how you're handling that and how it's set up for you. But also, you know, when I think about something that's gonna destroy a generational wealth faster, it's either gonna be bad investments or misaligned family dynamics. Which do you see is the the bigger problem?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

You know, misaligned family dynamics, I would say. How many times have I seen families kill all the wealth because they're just going after each other? It's I still know of a family that's real estate. In fact, I have not been able to help them. Um, the exit happened because of the father he passed during COVID. Um, they have over a billion dollars in hard assets stuck across the country because the family just is so misaligned that they cannot agree on anything. Half of them want to sell, half of them don't want to sell. In fact, um, at that level, when it gets that bad, the family's not even talking to each other. It's just now the attorneys. Um, and that's not what you want. Anytime two attorneys get involved, and this is not against attorneys, but anytime two attorneys are talking to each other, um, and our this is not their fault, our system rewards them to continue the fat the fight and the battle. Our system is set up that they it's not aligned for them to settle quickly, right? So that their billable hours are taken care of. So you cannot expect your problems to go away faster. Um, so that's why I always say get an intermediary, you know, get like an advisor involved, or bring your CPAU advisor to handle these types of things, have clear involved. Yeah, I I hope so. Um, and honestly, these things are so emotionally charged that I also recommend family therapy during this process. Um, and it's one of those things where women tackle this problem differently, and men tackle this problem differently. It really boils down to how do women uh handle it versus men?

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Like, what do you think the big um differentiation is?

SPEAKER_00 27:30

You know, I've seen men uh lean on attorneys faster and women lean on intermediaries faster. Um I've seen and women being open to oh, okay, fine, I won't sue you, but the men the men have already done it. So let's say it's very different.

Entitlement, Heirs, And Guardrails

SPEAKER_02 27:48

So along those lines on when we're talking about succession, we're talking about, you know, like what you said, that mindset being built there young. How do you, like as a fractional family office, play a role in like protecting the heirs from entitlements, mismanagement, and external influence? Because I really feel like that external influence is kind of like, well, I don't want to do what my dad did. I don't want to do what my grandpa did. Like, I'm gonna get a different advisor, you know. So, how do you how does the fractional family office really play a role in protecting that?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

You know, and I love that question. Uh, and the reason I even called uh this office, this family office fractional family office because I wanted uh the individual to feel that they're open to be able to build their own mandate. So it's not that you want to ignore everything that the first generation, second generation set up for you. It's more so to leverage the best of what you got and still being open to I can build my own. So I feel the biggest conflict comes into that family dynamics again when uh the the kids are not having chats with their parents about I'm not expected to do what you're doing, but I am expected to understand how you originate all this money that you're currently doing. Because unlike yeah, it's you have to understand how to earn that income. Because if you don't understand how your parents are doing it or how you're gonna inherit the money and continue growing it, you're gonna lose it. This is very common. In fact, this is notorious for family offices. Generation one earns it, generation two loses it. And it's because of this entitlement problem, and it's because they're not having generation one is so busy earning that they're not able to communicate, they're not able to pause and understand and what's happening, right? How do I communicate? And then, of course, kids are notorious not listening to their parents. I have two teenagers, I get it. You know, so that's when a third-party advisor can come in, like a person like me, that can actually educate the process, take that bonus off the parents and educate from the money mindset. I don't have to teach them morality, I have to teach them, bro, this is how your money is being earned. You know, you stop not understanding how this money's earned and how to save this money and how to grow this money, then you're screwed. Like you're you're 100% guaranteed to lose this money if you don't understand how to preserve and grow it. So my mindset is only to teach them money parts. And that in itself puts the fear in them, and and you have to catch them young. So if they've crossed 30 already, it's tougher, you know, much tougher. Yeah, I'm dealing with those guys, they they know everything, so it's very difficult. But like the coachable guides will always be coachable, you know, guys and gals. Um, but under 30, so much easier. And a lot of these generation ones actually also have this kind of um step-up basis that's set up in their own trust where they are they're kind of guiding the younger generation, saying, take these four steps and then you get this much access. Take these steps, you get this much access. So I find that very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Like contingencies in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yes, contingencies is a must because what otherwise you're gonna just cut them a check. The worst thing you can do is not be around and give your kids a bunch of cash. Anyone that has kids will know that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I can't even begin to tell you. I got a phone call not too long ago where somebody had asked me about um their will, kind of like had a conversation about it, and that's how they were gonna divide up their you know, their assets and all of that stuff. And me also knowing the party, like the family party. I'm like, hey, you're just gonna give that much money to that person? I'm like, what do they know about managing that kind of money? And that like raised some big uh alarms for me. And I'm like, the big the biggest advice that I could give her at that time was just like, why don't you build in some contingencies for that? Like you get this much money when you get your college degree, like when you get this, like what do you want your family to be required to do? And don't use your money as a weapon, but use it as the wealth building uh for internal educational, but also for what they can do with assets and um investments as well, you know. But if they don't have that education, all they're gonna do is spend it because that's all they've been taught their whole life is to be consumers.

Grooming Kids: Pay Them To Attend Meetings

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yes, and and and it's not the kids' fault because parents were so busy earning that you know they didn't get a chance to explain all of this, but they did put up a good structure, they go have good advisors, but now you're talking about the kids wanting to do their own things. So I have to teach the parents like I understand your concerns that the kids need to learn, but like when a parent talks and puts all this knowledge in front of them, the kids are very selective hearing as well. So you want to start as young as possible. I I talk about keeping them in business meetings past 11. This is the Rockefeller theory, right? They used to actually bring in their uh younger generations at age uh 11 and 12, have them sit through family meetings where they would discuss current investments, global economics, what's happening in global events, political pressures. These all affect your industries. How to understand your industry from a bird's eye view from a global perspective really matters to families that are invested across the world. So, how to move your assets and um how to take control. So the kids are not really trained to like go to Kuman and do this math problem 500 times, but they are instead, yeah, given, let's talk about global politics. You know, those types of talks have been happening across generations. And I noticed the same thing in India. Uh, we have some very influential families like Dambani's. Um, they always started in the Tatas and the Birlas very famous for starting their own kids in their own industries as workers, um, at you know, a teenage level, so that they can kind of work through the process in the industry to understand how the money's earned.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Um aspects of that industry as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Exactly. Being keeping them humble, you know, keeping them aware of how hard it is to earn money uh for everyday person, until you can teach them those, the entitlement feeling doesn't go away.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

I feel like the entitlement feeling is so um strong right now in this generation. Um, even amongst you know, people that are not millionaires, I mean, you see that entitlement. Um, social media really enforces that entitlement. So it's it's interesting to see this generation of wealth builders is gonna look like this the next generation, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, and then you know, we are expected like, I mean, I'm 45 now, but I've seen wealth being originated from usual industries and usual methods. And now I see in the last 10 years, I'm finding influencers making 10 million, 20 million. I'm watching YouTubers cashing in$50 million checks. I'm these are kids, they're 21 to 25 years old and have that kind of attraction in the influencer space, and they're globally invested. A lot of them are not just waiting, um, and they don't really know what to do, but they know how to preserve their cash. They know that. But in the end of the day, it's like you can't just sit on it, right? You need to start talking about it. But they're, I would say they're almost like a deer cotton headlight. Like, oh yeah, I knew I was gonna do it, but I it wasn't gonna be this fast because the influencer space is so unpredictable. Yeah. Yeah, there's, I mean, it's very unpredictable. And there, and people are with AI coming, right? Everything's becoming more and more predictable. So we're thinking and expecting that we're gonna have more billionaires uh under 30 uh very quickly within the next 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Uh, we were just having that conversation earlier where it's like we're living in the most uh interesting time in history where you're seeing the youngest billionaires being produced, um, young multimillionaires uh in their teenage years. And even now we're seeing a lot more women billionaires, which again a lot of firsts in this in history. So I'm so excited about it. It's an exciting time to do that, grow wealth. It's an exciting time to, you know, really uh connect with the right people that have the right information that are going to steer them in the right direction with their investments and uh taxes and everything else. So, you know, the one biggest thing that I've noticed in um because I'm more like on the emotional intelligence side, you're more on the numbers side. Yes. When working with family offices, the one thing that I've I've really honed in on is that sometimes that um the patriarch, the founders, can have like that influence, but they have a really hard time not being a bottleneck, too. Have you experienced that?

Strategy Over Piecemeal Advisors

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yes. In fact, um, most of my guys that are patriarchs that I'm working with, uh, men and women are um, I would say under half a billion. Um, and um the matriarchs are the ones who are actually over a billion. And it's what it's very interesting because the dynamic is such that they know they need the help, but they also know they can do it themselves because they they did it themselves, you know. So the they are definitely the bottleneck. And I'm not I'm not telling these guys to come work with me, but I am talking to them about how are you talking, how are you communicating with your kids? How are your who do the kids want to listen to? They do they want to listen to you? Do they want to listen to your advisors? Um, you know, how are you communicating with the kids? And are the kids comfortable with continuing the business or what are the mandates the kids are doing? And how can you keep an eye on those mandates? How can you keep an eye on like where the money is going? So I'm asking the patriarchs in that generation to not necessarily suddenly trust me, you know, but in the end of the day, I am asking them like, how are you planning to do this and um if I can help in that process? So they can still not use me as a first-line advisor because they probably already have their own setup, um, but to help me understand their kids so I can become their second-tier advisor where I'm helping their kids and guiding their kids because I understand that generation very well. Um, and I can communicate the the problems that the family is gonna, you know, come into in advance. Plus, keep an eye on what the kids are spending the money on. There are a lot of parents that are like, I will only give you this much money to only invest in this. And the kids are like, Well, I want to do my own mandate, and say, Oh, but you don't got the time because you got to do all of this. So, you know, it that becomes like the, you know, I call it the checkmate. Nobody's moving, everyone's stuck. So that's where I usually come in, and that's the bottleneck that I can address and actually help move along uh while the patriarch kind of sniff tests us, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

I love that term, sniff test. You know, and you mentioned it earlier about taking uh your children into board meet member meetings and you know, being really involved at that level at 11, 12, 13 years old. And I feel like that's that grooming process. And, you know, just being around these family offices, you see sometimes even family offices at the semillionaire uh mark, and they are raising their kids, like raising them to be phenomenal human beings, but they're not grooming them at the same time, you know. So they're raising them, they're all involved in sports, they're very healthy, um, mindset healthy, but they're not like family office mindset. Um, and you know, even when I talk to some of them, they're like, oh no, I don't even know what I want to do with my life yet. And it's like, oh, okay. Yeah, they're not trying to take over the family business or about that. So that's interesting in itself. Why do you think that um even at like a senti-millionaire um stage that they're not grooming, but obviously raising phenomenal kids?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah, I mean, I see I see this problem because these kids are kind of zoned into their own friends and their own, you know, I'm busy doing this and I'm busy doing that, and I hate this and I hate that, and the parents kind of have to deal with it. Um, so I tell them how to make it more effective and fun and actually pay them for the board meetings. Um, so the I the yeah, uh the provide because you know, I mean, you're you're providing for their lifestyle anyways. So if you want to add a little cherry on top of that ice cream, the idea is that you want to invite them in and say, hey, you get paid for this. All you have to do is come and sit here. You don't have to do anything. Don't give them homework on top of that. Don't give them more work. So that's a great first step. And I I've seen less resistance. I mean, there's still kids that are like, hell no, I don't need it, you know, uh, because they have the access whenever they need it, they have that credit card they can swipe. Um, but I always like to put guardrails on that, on the on the spending limits, and then keeping this as a bonus tier where it's like, hey kids, if you start showing up for this thing, all I want you to do is sit there. You could be a fly on the wall, but I'm gonna pay you for it. And that's how you start bringing them into the board meetings and the business, and they're not gonna understand anything in the beginning, but just the just the access to knowledge and their subconscious registering all this information is going to help you in the future when they're 16, 17, 18 to even communicate tougher things and tougher concepts.

Risk Analysis For G1 And G2

SPEAKER_02 41:13

You you mentioned it earlier too, about how the parent, the first generation that's building all the wealth, all they're doing is working, working, working, building, building, building. And then they're learning all these things along the way. Okay, I gotta invest, I gotta worry about taxes. Should I open up a, you know, a foundation, a charity, you know, things like that. And so when you think about that, obviously it does sound like, okay, well, I'm not thinking about my second generation because I'm thinking I'm the one that's doing everything, right? So, how do you get them out of that mindset and to start like pivoting to like we got to start looking at the next generation and how are we gonna make that mobile where we're not gonna be hemorrhaging money and losing the entire wealth that you built?

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Actually, I started providing that as a service because it was so difficult. It was so difficult to get the parents to actually take the onus and say, do this at this time and didn't follow a schedule. That I actually started providing it as a service so that I can actually help educate the next generation with them. So the kids are more obligated to show up. So the idea is like, hey, let's do a conversation, let's do a Zoom call where the whole family is present, we're doing a family meeting. Uh, it's a quarterly meeting, so everyone's on track. So just when they're 10 to 12, 12 to 13, this is the range where they should they should be showing up for these Zoom meetings. You start paying them for it. And the idea is that if I start doing this with the family, it becomes easier to then when I unplug to continue that conversation. And I ask the family to also like go on a vacation with your board members, which are your family for your family foundation, and go have a vacation, discuss what the next steps are. And you could do that at least, you know, twice a year. And not only do you get a family vacation, it's a tax deduction, and and you get to spend time with your kids and you get to have the tough conversations. Um, but I already started the process, and that that is an easier wheel to turn, uh, rather than when I first started 10 years ago starting telling the families, hey, did you have this chat already with your son or did you already do this with your daughter? Uh, especially when that marriageable age. Um, I had this one family, in fact, that came to me out of nowhere. They're about 25, 30 million dollars. And the younger son has no clue because the family raised them very, very conservatively, very um, you know, down-to-earth family. Uh raised them, like you were saying, raised them well, you know, good kids, morally sorted. Um, but the younger, the young kid is only like 21. He's already in love within the first three months of meeting somebody and has moved in and is about to get married. So now we're like never talking, you know, never thought about prenuptial agreements. It's an Indian culture, so it's like no one's discussing these types of things. I'm like, I understand that, but this is where you bring me in. You know, I'm gonna have this tough conversation for you. I'm gonna teach him why this is necessary. It's and I'm gonna set it up in a way. Where the family doesn't have to have that tough conversation. And it's all everything of like that I'm talking about should have been in their trust already. So when we first start, I talk about their succession and their trust and their kids and have it talked about prenups if they're dating. What does that mean? And you know, why do I need to protect myself? And this mindset has to be taught young because this kid at 21 didn't really even know what his net worth is or why he could get caught in one of these not good relationships. Um what it exposes the family to. In fact, the fastest way to lose money is divorce. So you really want to prevent that. And US is, yeah. US is climbing. I don't even know how I recovered. It's insane. It's insane. It's very difficult.

Philanthropy As Legacy And Tax Strategy

SPEAKER_02 44:46

So no, I could tell you this from the divorce, like what you're talking about. I mean, our divorce literally was uh my attorney fees alone were racked up to over$300,000. And I'm just like, for what? That was like the biggest, you know, like there's so much more that we could have accomplished other than when you like what you said, when attorneys get involved. But I think the point here is like when you think of um when you think of divorce and you think of all that, people a lot of people are not protected and they don't go into it thinking that way.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Um, everything's gonna happen, it's gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

It's gonna be awesome, and we're always gonna love each other.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah, I just went through a divorce, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Definitely okay. So, you know, and and to even for me, I feel like uh everything that we had already built, but now trying to do it all over again, that was just like a hard comeback. I felt like it was harder to do that than it was when I started out, you know? So that was an interesting experience.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah, because the emotional trauma in itself, right? That's the first part, and then the physical uh part of you know, moving and readjusting your assets. And I'm like, you're 21, you your parents have not set up the trust. By default, if she marries you, she becomes a part of the trust. You have no contingency plans like we're talking about. There's no no chat about what a prenuptial agreement even is to settle in his brain, let alone transfer that information to her brain. Um, and I'm not saying that all marriages end in divorces, but it's a really good uh risk mitigation strategy. And when we so when we first talk into start talking to families, the patriarchs and the matriarchs, this is what I'm talking about. I'm talking about risk. What are you exposing yourself to? Because you're out there hustling and making money and you're the generation one. You're not thinking about what your kids are up to all day long. So when you have kids, you have minors, these are the conversations we want to start up. So that quarterly meeting will obviously have where are your taxes? Where's your cash flow? Um, how are your investments doing? You know, what positions are we holding? What are we restructuring? We talk about trust, any life movements, you know, how old are the kids turning this year? What are you guys planning for vacation? Where are you guys, you know, things like that. Um, any major expenses coming up. Imagine doing that quarterly so that the kids are always aware that this money is not just, you know, come out from space and just landed in your backyard. Your parents are hustling every single day to provide that sweet life for you. So you better learn how it's done, right?

Closing Thoughts And How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 47:22

And I like what you said about getting them involved and being employees first to understand like how the movement of the business works and and what it takes to really keep it going. But you know, I guess so. For me, what do you think? Um, as far as a fractional family office and what you do and what you are offering, because you're really offering like elite expertise. Whereas I feel like a lot of family offices kind of like do it in a way where it's like, I'm gonna hire this person. It's kind of piecemealing advisors together and then hoping they all kind of get along. Whereas you, you're already coming with these relationships, they're already vetted. So you're coming as like a whole suite of elite expertise. How do you feel like um the families can really take advantage of what you do?

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, that's exactly what I do, is I want to show up as your strategist. Um, I think you might already have a CPA, you might already have an investment advisor, you might already have an attorney, um, and you are probably all invested already, right? And everything's running sweet. Um, but if there if you feel like something's missing, there's something not correctly falling into the space, that's where I'm the strategy officer. I come in, plug and play. So my job is not to take all the positions that you have and rejig them, but to actually make it efficient. So how a family office can really use my services is to bring me in and have me do an efficiency check. That would be very easy to do through investments, succession, and your taxes. And once I can do an efficiency check, I can tell you how to, you know, upgrade to the next level and make sure that you know you do these 10, 20, 30 actions to achieve those efficiencies, and then I'm on my way. So you don't need to keep me around. And that's why I love the name fractional because I want to plug and play at where you are, finding all the holes because of all my licensing. I can I can very much see you through. I have a 65 and insurance as well as the real estate, and I have lending in-house. So when I can really see what's going on with your cash and your debt stack and your equity, I can really help you kind of organize and find where the inefficiencies are very quickly. So once I find the inefficiencies, you can work with me or continue your own thing. You know, it's just you know, now you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Well, I feel like a suite of expertise is better than trying to piecemeal anything together. I mean, if so, our listeners who are thinking, hey, we're successful, but something kind of feels exposed here, you know, what is the first conversation they should be having with you?

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Yeah, risk analysis. We want to talk about your risk check. You know, where are you at right now? What's your exposure? What's your taxation looking like? It's basically risk across the board. So literally it can be uh personal risk, family risk, business risk, right? Um, even sometimes small things like life insurance, uh, you know, just small stuff that that can really cause big problems. And generation one usually doesn't even understand how to mitigate risk correctly. So those are the great conversations that we can have with generation one. Generation two, I feel, is more into their how do I do my own mandates and how do I want to set up, you know, I'm a restaurateur at heart, or I'm this creative, I want an art gallery. Uh, so you can use me as your strategy officer and really kind of knock out what is not viable and what will actually work for you when it comes to generating those that income through your passion, because mandates otherwise are not functional. So generation two and three are different conversations. Um, and for generation one, it really helps to keep me involved in those types of new building mandates and new investments so that I can really help them risk analyze as well. So basically it all boils down to risk.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Yeah, no, it definitely does. Now, you know, I love our conversation here today, but I feel like this is just the beginning of the conversation. This is the conversation starter. If you are listening here today, you definitely need to click on the links below that we are posting for Avni. Um, get on her calendar because she takes her work very seriously. But she also wants to help you grow your wealth, but also help you keep retaining it for the next generation and all the generations to come. Um, and I, you know, I really want to ask if you could leave um an affluent family with one truth about wealth that's gonna skyrocket or change how they operate forever and multiple generations down the road, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 51:45

I would say it has to be something to do with their philanthropy. Their legacy can be really pushed in with philanthropy. And a lot of these mandates that the next two, three, four generations might want to set up actually could fall under philanthropy and continue your legacy. Um, because you you've already done it, you already have enough money to survive this, maybe four, five, seven generations out. It's not about now, it's not about money, it's about impact. Uh, and it also is very tax efficient.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

So oh my gosh, Amnin. Okay, what I love about your work is that you you don't just manage the wealth. I mean, everything that we talked about in this conversation, you're stewarding power, continuity, and most importantly, peace. And that's just a very different, uh, it's a different level of fractional family office, family office faith, but most importantly, leadership. And you're leading that ship and stirring that ship in a in a good direction, um, and kind of getting them off the guardrail and and getting steady for the next generations to come. So thank you so much for joining us here today. Um, if you could leave uh one message for our listeners, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Uh uh love thy neighbor, please. It's it's the world's going crazy. Uh, you know, everyone's a human being out there, and uh don't forget that you're human too.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Oh my gosh, love that. Thank you so much, Avni. And uh we will see you soon, entrepreneurs. I hope you guys all tuned in. Look at her website. We're gonna have all of her um information in the description. So please take a look. And if this um podcast episode resonated with you and it struck a chord, and you're like, Yes, we look fine on white paper, but I know something's missing, you definitely want to reach out to her. And thank you, everybody. Until the next episode.